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Joey Kramer

Posted November/December, 2009

Posted November 2009

 

KramerGrayDrumsPhoto Courtesy of Rob Shanahan - RobShanahan.comMoney.  Check.

Fame.  Check.

A wife and family.  Check and check.

Clean and sober for nine years.  Check.

Whoever this person is sounds like they have life firing on all cylinders, doesn’t?  However, this was not the case with Aerosmith drummer, Joey Kramer, back in 1995.  Just as he and the band were about to begin work on an album, Kramer had a mental and emotional breakdown.

The months that followed involved lots of therapy that peeled back layer upon layer of deep, emotional baggage filled with hurt and pain from his childhood and most of the significant relationships in his life.  The result left Joey with some very difficult decisions to make.  Decisions that meant walking away from a lot:  a beautiful estate, an emotionally abusive marriage and other toxic relationships.  It also led to Kramer taking back the ownership of his life.

Kramer’s book, Hit Hard (see the Boomerocity review of the book here), chronicles his childhood of emotional void and intense loneliness that learning to play drums helped him cope with.  It also details his battles with various demons in adulthood that led to his eventual breakdown and ultimate recovery.  During a recent phone conversation from his offices in the greater Boston area, I had the privilege of talking with Joey Kramer about his book and some of the stories that he shares in it

To be sure, before talking with Joey, I couldn’t help but think about the fact that he provided the steady beat to the soundtrack of my youth on great Aerosmith songs like “Walk This Way”, “Dream On”, and “Sweet Emotions”.  After reading “Hit Hard”, it was clear that there was much more than met the eye with regards to the trappings of his success during those years.

At 59, Kramer comes across as someone who’s at peace with himself and comfortable with whom he is.  Not really knowing what to expect, I quickly found that his warmth and approachability created a very relaxed atmosphere for us to talk.

The conversation starts off with discussing how sales of “Hit Hard” are doing.  “They’re going okay.  Now that we’ve been off the road awhile, I’m going to be doing some book signings and some meet ‘n greets and, hopefully, up the sales a bit.”

As someone who grew up in a nurturing environment as a kid, I shared with Kramer how his childhood was hard for me to grasp and to understand how parents could treat kids the way he was treated.  I was curious if writing the book was more painful to write or if he found it more liberating.

With some introspection, he replies, “Um, it was very cathartic writing it.  It was very cleansing and I found that, once I began to role on a subject, it was really amazing (to find) what’s stored up in your memory as far as letting it role.  If I was talking about somebody that I went to high school with, a story about that person would connect me to somebody else or another situation and, before you know it, things are really rolling.  It’s really incredible what’s in our minds that we don’t even know is there as far as what your memory has recorded from the past.”

I brought up the story he mentions in the book regarding a letter that he wrote to his dad.  I asked how key the role of forgiveness played in turning his life around.  His reply is enthusiastic and to the point.

“Oh!  Very key!  Very key!  You have to forgive and you have to let go of the past because, without letting go of the past, without forgiving, you really can’t move on.  You really can’t move forward with your life in any capacity.  And as long as it takes to conjure up that forgiveness, that’s how long you stay stuck.”

In commenting to Kramer that forgiveness is a hard thing for people to do and the fact that he was able to forgive the people that hurt him the most was, indeed, amazing, he mellows a bit more as he comments, “Yeah, especially in the section that concerned my father – forgiving him before he passed.  That was really important to me because, otherwise, I would’ve really been stuck there.  It really was an amazing moment for me.  After doing a lot of therapy, I just came to him and – well, the reality of it is that I was doing it for myself but for him as well.   It released him and cleaned the slate for us both before he passed.”

People like Kramer who have a lot of international fame, money and influence, have a lot of people who derive their own power and prestige by being associated with them.  Joey was no exception.  Lots of people controlled him and filtered what he heard and who he heard it from.  This skewed his view of life.  With that thought in mind, I asked him, “Once you took control of your life and your relationships, what technique, what attitude or what actions have been successful for you in standing up to those who have wished to dominate you or new relationships that tried to dominate you, things like that?  For others that need that kind of advice, what’s been successful for you in that area?”

“Well, that’s a very interesting question, Randy.  My answer to that would be to own yourself; to own your own feelings, your own emotions, and not let co-dependency get in the way - with co-dependency being that you’re dependent upon someone else to feel good about yourself.  It’s very important to own your own feelings and to stand up for yourself.

“In the past, I’ve always had a difficult time standing up for myself and, by virtue of that, sometimes you establish relationships with people who are not even conscious or aware of their taking advantage of you or your emotions.  If things go a certain way for them and they get certain perks – from me anyway – they get certain perks by being your friend and then all of a sudden, when you take back the turf that you let them own, they don’t like that and it makes people very uncomfortable.  And that in itself is a very difficult thing to deal with.  But you have to own your own emotions and your own feelings and basically, for me, a big part of it was learning to stand up for myself. “

I asked if he had been hiding behind the drums.  He replies with a laugh, “Well, where I really hid the most, I found, was in my drug addiction and in my alcoholism and once that was gone and I got rid of that, there was no place to hide.  Then I really came into the depression and the anxiety.  I think that was the lack of being able to deal with the stuff that we’ve been talking about.  Because I think depression and anxiety, which goes hand-in-hand with it, is un-dealt-with anger that reverts back inside you.  If you can’t be outward with it, then it comes in and attacks you inwardly.”

Clearly comfortable with discussing what he’s learned, he continues, “I was just really emotionally distraught and bankrupt when I had my breakdown back in 1995.  That’s when I dealt with all of that.  I was already 9 years clean and sober. So I was really wondering, ‘Wow, I’ve been clean and sober for 9 years and now, what is this all about?’  Because people are under the impression that getting clean and sober is the answer itself which it really isn’t.  It’s only part of it.”

I was curious if Kramer felt that he has uncovered all the skeletons in his emotional closet or was he still discovering new ones.

“Well, no, I know what I need to work on, which is a constant battle every day.  And there’s also new stuff that comes up just as well.  So, you know, it keeps it fairly interesting.  It keeps me on my toes all the time.”

While the letter to Joey’s father represented dealing with the pains of his past, he writes about walking away from his beautiful estate and his marriage – the symbols of his fame and his toxic relationships - in order to come to complete terms with his life.  I commented that those acts had to be incredibly tough for him to pull off.

“Well, yeah, it was because I was very preoccupied in thinking that, in believing that being involved in an abusive relationship was just part and parcel – that was part of doing business.  I just thought that was the way it was supposed to be – the way that it is – because I didn’t know any better.

“I was preoccupied with all my stuff:  the money, the houses and the cars.  I thought that if you have all of that then you’re happy regardless of what your relationship was like.  That’s just not what it’s about.  That’s just not the truth of the matter.  Now, when people are ready to get honest with themselves, you can get honest with yourself and that’s half of it.  Then the other half is actually doing something about it. “

“And, boy, that you did!  And, aside from the letter to your dad, to me that was the most compelling part of the book - the stand you took in doing that.  It must have been a very tough thing to do.”

“Yeah, it was.  It was but it paid off for me and I’m extremely happy now.”

In past interviews relative to “Hit Hard”, Kramer has mentioned his desire to help others by telling his story.  I asked him what his “elevator speech” would be to a room full of people, kids and adults alike, who are either in homes like he was as a kid or were at their own “Miami cross-roads” as he was in 1995.

“Well, it’s a difficult thing to just say and pull off at the same time but I think that the biggest attribute that I was able to establish for myself was honesty.  And once you’re able to be completely honest with yourself then I think a lot of things begin to fall into place.  Because, you know, we have a lot of things justified and we make excuses for anything and everything in life, whether it’s for not doing certain things that we should do or being a certain way and not correcting it or being mean to people and not being a pleasant person.

“I mean, there are all kinds of justifications for everything but when you get down to being honest with yourself, I mean, for real, because I believe that we all have that little voice inside, you know? That little voice inside – that we know better?  Unless you’re troubled by being mentally ill in some fashion, then when that little voice talks to you, then that’s the honesty.  I know that I have that little voice inside and I’ve done a lot of work and a lot of therapy and I honor that little voice inside.”

I asked if there were any stories that he wished he had included or if there has there been any backlash with regards to the stories he did include.

His reply is resolute and confident. “No to both questions.  I pretty much put everything in there.  I made an honest attempt at doing my book and I think that’s one of the things that people recognize and identify with is the fact that its honest.  I don’t think that I left anything out, really.  I mean, I worked on that book for four years.  It’s pretty much all in there.”

Coming close to the end of our conversation, I asked Joey what was next, project wise, after he has completed the promotion of his book.

“I don’t know.  I have a couple of irons in some different fires that I can’t really talk about yet but – you know, there could be some other things.  Maybe another book, maybe some other projects, it all depends.  It depends on a lot of different things.”

I relayed how pleasantly surprised I was to find that the book wasn’t another “stoner rock star” tome and that I couldn’t put the book down until I was finished.  I also shared some of the positive responses I received from Boomerocity readers.

“Well, thank you very much.  I didn’t want it to be just your average rock and roll memoir, you know?  There’s a lot of those out there and, not only are there a lot of those out there, but it gave me the opportunity to use my celebrity to discuss things that are very pertinent subjects today which are depression, anxiety, drug addiction and alcoholism.

“And, yeah, it’s talked about all the time but you don’t have to be in my position, you don’t have to be a rock and roll star to crash and burn.  Everybody suffers from all of those things.  And, if you don’t suffer from them yourself, you suffer with the likes of somebody you know that suffers from it and, therefore, it affects you in some way, shape or form.  So, it’s pertinent information and you know, it’s out there today.  I’m not a believer in creating a bunch of dirt that people can read about, although that’s what people want to read.  But this is the real stuff.”

I closed out my conversation with Joey Kramer with one final question that required some heart-felt reflection on his part.  I asked how the changes in his life affected his view of the world and of life.

“Well, it’s made me much more pleasant person to be around, I think.  I have discovered that it’s a whole lot easier to be nice than to – I use to be a fairly grumpy kind of person because there was a lot of things that I was angry about and that I was unhappy about but I didn’t really do anything about it.

“Writing the book helped me get it out and I’ve become a better person for it.  My view of life in general is better – more positive.  I don’t let a lot of things bother me that I used to and I don’t allow people to take my power from me anymore.  It’s been a very difficult road for me but now that I’m on the road that I’m on, I’m pretty happy about it.”

After the conversation was over, I sat in my office and reflected on the conversation that I just had.  First, I pinched myself, making sure that I just didn’t dream the conversation with a member of one of my favorite bands of my youth and adulthood.  Second, I was both amazed and thankful that Joey Kramer rid himself of his addictions, fought through the depression and anxiety, and thought enough of others to swallow his pride and share his gripping story with the world.  It’s a story that others need to hear and can benefit from.

If you know of anyone that is fighting some sort of addiction, depression or anxiety, then do them a favor and pick-up a copy of Joey’s story, “Hit Hard”.  It’s a brilliantly written, but painful, book to read that is certain to help those that take the time to read it.

William King

Posted July, 2010

 

William King, Walter Orange & J.D. Nicholas of the Commodores

During my last year of high school in Phoenix, Arizona, one of the staples of our dances was the hit song, Brick House, by the Commodores.  There was something about that song that made one think that one’s butt could move in ways that it simply wasn’t designed to do. Or, maybe it was just my butt. I’m just sayin’. 

However, not only was that song a staple at a high school dance that was attended mainly by white and Hispanic kids, it drew the crowd’s attention to a hot act that would command their attention for the rest of their lives, with record sales of 75 million copies and climbing. What a testament to the unifying attributes of great music!

One of the hits that attributed to such astonishing sales was their 1985 tribute to Marvin Gaye and Jackie Wilson, Nightshift. That song was to the 80’s as Abraham, Martin and John was to the 60’s.

Fast-forward twenty-five years to June 25, 2010. If the month and day sounds like they should mean something, you’re correct.  That marked the first anniversary of the death of Michael Jackson.  To commemorate his life and passing, the Commodores released a new version of Nightshift.

I always felt that the original version of the song could never be improved upon and that no one should ever try to “cover” it.  However, when I listened to an advance copy of the re-recorded version of the song, the hair on the back of my neck stood straight up. The lyrics are as touching for its honoring of Michael Jackson as the original version was in honoring Marvin and Jackie.

I knew that I had to talk to one of the Commodores about this great, new version of this classic song.  It was my pleasure to be able to chat by phone with one of the original members of the Commodores, William King. 

By the time I talked with King, he had already had a long day of interviews talking about the song.  I knew he had to be tired but you wouldn’t know it by his warmth and willingness to chat with yet another interviewer.

I cut to the chase by asking questions that I knew he had already answered countless times already that day.  I asked Mr. King what led to the latest version of Nightshift.

“Well, you know, when we actually did the song for the first time after Michael died, which was the next night, it wasn’t anything like what you’re hearing now, lyric wise.  On stage in Birmingham, England, JD (Nicholas) went in and sang (going into the melody of the tune) ‘Michael, he was a friend of mine . . .” and he just started off like that, right? And he just did it out of nowhere.  He said, ‘I just wanted to pay homage, tribute, to Michael.’ It just struck him. And the crowd went wild! 

“We said, ‘You know what?  We need to build on this. Let’s do this every night.’ So, we just did it for the rest of the tour in Great Britain.  A little bit here, a little bit there. But, when we got home, we decided to get everybody together that did the original.

“We got Dennis Lambert, who was the producer on it, and all the gentlemen who worked on the original with us.  We got the engineer and we went out to Malibu, California, went into a studio out there and we sat there for three days and got everything, the lyrics, everything together and did the recording. I actually brought my daughter in who was born a year before that song even came out. So she helped us do backgrounds on it. And that was great, any time you have your children working with you.

“So, we went into the studio and got it out. Actually, we’ve done two versions of it. The one that you hear now and the other version that is more up tempo. Its bpm is 130 (as compared to the current releases 96bpm – which means it is a faster tempo – or Beats Per Minute), something like that. But, when we finished, the fuller version is just a killer! So that’s the one we decided to go with.

“It took us about two and a half days of everybody buckling down and going in early in the ‘a.m.’ and coming out late at night, trying to get this finished. That’s what you hear now.”

I asked William if the song was driven by the Jacksons having given them their first real big exposure by having the Commodores as their opening act in 1971 and for two subsequent years or from the subsequent friendship over the years afterwards.

“Well, it was a little bit of both. We did almost two and a half years with them and then after that we had our hit records. But, you know, Michael would come to our shows and some of his brothers would come to our shows and no one would know that they were even there!

“Yeah, he would come and pick the perfect spot. We’d all laugh afterwards because he’d be sitting in the audience and nobody knew that he was sitting next to them! I’ll tell you this: he was WELL disguised!”

“The only time I know that anyone noticed him was in Vegas when we were playing there. Evidently, one of the ladies was sitting there next to him and realized it was him. It wasn’t so much that it was him but she realized that there were a lot of people – bodyguards and people like that – around this one guy that made her pay attention. Then, staring at him, she’s like, ‘Wait! That’s Michael Jackson!’”

“But, other than that, he would just come and go as he wished. It was great. He would come backstage and say hello and all of that. We have a video out that we’ve put together – quickly – that’s on our MySpace page. In it, when we were actually on tour one time, Michael came into the dressing room and that’s in the video.”

With such an incredible new treatment of this classic song, I asked William what the groups plans were to promote the song and if the song was going to be tagged to an album in the future.

King laughs as he replies, “You know what? We had the same conversation two days ago. This exact conversation! And, so, what we’re going to try to do is finish up our album and get the song tagged on to it. The problem is, is that we’ve already committed to so many performance dates that it makes it almost impossible. Clyde (Walter Orange), one of the lead singers and co-writer of the original version of “Nightshift”, is saying, ‘I need at least two weeks off before we go into the studio so that I can rest my voice so that I can sound the best that I can sound.’ And I understand what he’s saying. I really do get it. You want to come in fresh and feel good. But, right now, the idea is to tag this with the album that we’ve been working on for two years and, hopefully, this will inspire us to get through it because we have six or seven songs to go yet.”

With our call wrapping up, I asked Mr. King what  Commodores fans could expect from the guys in the near future.

“One of our main concerns is how we’re going to arrange our music on our next CD. Are we going to go very young? Are we going to stick to what we’ve been doing in the past? I don’t think anybody wants us to do that. You have to grow. But I think what we’re going to lean towards is to still do beautiful songs, but temper our up tempo songs more towards today’s sound. But it doesn’t have to be ‘16 years old’, you know what I mean? It can be a ‘25 to 35’ sound. We don’t want to be ‘bubble gum’. We’re not trying to appeal to 10, 11, 12 year olds. But we do want appeal to the young adult range.”

“We have to temper it a bit for radio. A lot of radio stations only play music that fits their ear. So, we have to consider that as well. One of the things that I’ve said in the meeting the other day is that the good thing is that if something takes off and it’s a hit, regardless, they’ll be forced to play it. They’re going to follow the money.  If they don’t play it and the kids want to hear it, they’ll switch stations to hear it where they can. I do that. You do that. That’s the only governing body that we have that’s hard to influence.

“Anyway, we’re trying to clear out our schedule so that we can get back into the studio. We need some gaps in our schedule that we are now trying to create. We’ve already locked down about three weeks. We moved some things, which is great because you can’t always move them. That’s what we’re trying to do right now – move things if possible so that we get back into the studio and get into recording.  You come up with things in the studio that are just beautiful! You have no idea how you even got there. One little thing leads you to one thing and then another and then another. Somebody hears a lyric in the back of his head and he goes, ‘How about this?’ and that spurs somebody else. The magic just happens.”

I mentioned to William that I’d love to be a fly on the wall of the studio as they crafted their art.  He laughed as he replied, “Well, you’ll need a lot of buffers on those ears because there’ll be a lot of arguing!”  I imagine that is how most great musical work is created.

At the end of our chat, Mr. King graciously invited me backstage to the Commodores’ show that was, as luck would have it, taking place in my neighboring town of Allen, Texas, the following weekend.  Of course, I took him up on his kind offer!

As I stood off to the side of the crowd of admirers, what I witnessed backstage showed me the true character of these legendary men.  To begin with, Walter Orange, who didn’t know who I was, saw me observing the activities backstage as I was holding my copy of the Commodores’ album, Natural High.  He walked over to me, reached for the album and my Sharpie, and signed it as we exchanged some humorous remarks.

Next, a fan who appeared to be approximately my age, was pushing her elderly mother in a wheelchair.  Orange stepped away from the crowd and walked over to the “young lady” in the wheelchair and had a private conversation.  That alone, my friends, would have been worth the price of a very expensive ticket to watch.

Orange, William King and J.D. Nicholas were incredibly gracious to the many fans that were fortunate enough to be part of the backstage meet and greet.  They took the time necessary to allow the fans to have their picture taken with them and to shake hands. 

When the meet and greet was over, I approached William, introducing myself.  His face lit up with a genuine, ear-to-ear smile and gave me the biggest bear hug I’ve ever received in my life.  We chatted a few minutes before he had to join his band mates in the RV for a last minute chat before hitting the stage.

The guys put on a powerful, energetic show despite the sweltering Texas heat.  If the Commodores are coming to your city or town, you will definitely want to avail yourself to an incredible night of fantastic music and memories. 

Be sure to check out the new version of Nightshift at the Commodores’ MySpace page. Also watch for the re-launching of their website in the days ahead and, hopefully, an album of brand new work in the not-too-distant future.

Harry "KC" Casey

Posted August, 2010

KCConcertShot6When I was in high school back in the seventies, one of my favorite things to do was go to the school dances.  It wasn’t so that I could dance because I really didn’t dance.  It was to meet up with friends, scope out my latest, weekly crush and to just have fun watching others have fun.

At those dances, everybody would liven up when the more danceable songs were played (for those fortunate souls who could actually dance, that is).  One of the bands that definitely got the kids excitedly onto the dance floor was KC and the Sunshine Band.  There was something about the danceable, carefree sounds from KC that made one want to dance and do so with a smile on your face.  Such were the not-a-care-in-the-world seventies.

I was recently offered the opportunity to chat with Harry “KC” Casey, who is currently on tour in the U.S.  What an honor it was to be able to chat with one of the people who contributed so much to the soundtrack of my youth.  After some small talk and relayed greetings from mutual friend, Rob Parissi, I asked KC what he has been up to lately.

“Lately, I’ve been off for the last couple of weeks. My main thing is that I do between 80 and 100 shows a year. It’s be a little slower since the recession has started because of the corporate side of it, but that’s what I do – what I love doing. Other than that, I just chill out and take care of other business I have to take care of.”

With KC enjoying a successful touring schedule, I wondered how the road is different for him today than it was back in the 70’s. After some thought, he replied, “Well, it’s gotten a lot easier. Because of technology and things like that, it’s just a lot easier to do the shows – to put them up; to put them together. You don’t have to have monitors on the stage any more – you just have the earphones in your ears and the sounds right in there and you don’t have to scream over the band. Every night is pretty consistent.  It’s just a great thing.”

With these kinds of changes in place, I wondered what kind of show that his fans could expect on this tour.

“Well, we have a lot of hits so the shows are mainly of the number one hits that we had. The girls and I change costumes during the show so during those parts, the band does melodies of cover songs from the seventies just to keep the whole show familiar to the audience.

“I used to put obscure singles that we had in the show but I felt, at times, that we were losing the audience by doing that. So I thought, ‘Let’s put some covers in there because I think the audience would relate to that better.’ I know people have come to the show and critiqued it and said how we put all this filler in but its deliberate filler. I want the show to stay familiar to the audience. I hate going to a concert and hearing all this stuff that were not hits. I think it’s damned if I do and damned if I don’t.”

When I suggested that covering the stuff that people know is the lesser of two evils, KC immediately responded by saying, “That’s what I thought and then I read a couple of reviews trying to tear me down. It’s like, ‘c’mon man!’”

When I go to shows these days – especially artists that I admired when I was a kid – I always make sure that I notice what the makeup of the crowd is. Regardless of the act, it always amazes me at the age mix that is in the crowd.  I asked KC what was the demographic mix is of his crowds.

“We’ve always had from babies to grandmas! It still is, depending on the venue we’re playing. If we’re playing where you have to be twenty-one and older, then it’s from twenty-one’s to grandmas. A lot other times it’s a family affair, which is great.”

While still on the subject of audience expectations, I asked KC what will be different from when they saw him and the band in the 70s and what will be the same. He responds after some brief reflection.

 “I don’t know, the show is definitely a more ‘production’ type show. It’s more put together than the shows in the seventies. The seventies probably would’ve been a lot more ‘free-for-all’, you know what I mean?  These shows are a lot more put together. I’ve added a lot more dancers to the show. It’s really a ‘production’ show. I didn’t really tour that much in the seventies, anyway.”

Having crafted tunes that have such staying power, I mention to KC that I hear his list of great hits everywhere from satellite and terrestrial radio and as well as many other places. He adds with obvious, well deserved pride, “They’re in movies and TV commercials all the time. I hear my sound everywhere. The new Eminem record with Rihanna - the rhythm is similar to a song I had out called I Get Lifted.  I hear my influence throughout everybody’s records.”

In all of KC’s years of touring, what’s been the most memorable thing that has happened on the road?

Laughing, he say, “Oh boy! I don’t if I can remember anything! It was very chaotic to me. That’s what I really remember about it all – how chaotic it all was and how lonely it was for me. It was very lonely for me.

Probing a little deeper into his answer, I asked in what way and why he felt lonely.

“Lonely? Well, because I had to be locked in all the time. Being on the inside looking out. That’s how I was, constantly. I would have rather been there with everyone and I couldn’t be. It became very isolated and very lonely for me.”

As an interviewer, I know that the people that I’ve been very fortunate to interview have been asked the same questions thousands, if not millions, of times.  With that volume of repetitious questioning, they are expected to answer as if they’ve never been asked those questions before.  With that in mind, I asked KC what would be the one thing that he feels has been least covered and understood about him and his work.

Again, after giving the question some thought, he says, “The least understood?  I know that we created a new sound. We changed the sound of America in the seventies. Sometimes, I think because of the word ‘disco’ there this backlash, sometimes, because of this word, that we get thrown into that. If you come to one of my shows, it’s not a disco show, for sure.  There’s nothing wrong with disco and I guess that’s the point I’m getting at.

“Just being thrown into this category that’s receiving all of this backlash for no reason at all other than a rock and roller was angry and upset that music had taken away his rock and roll and did this to get back at somebody – did something very cruel and vicious. And, because of that cruel and vicious thing, it’s affected a whole period of music that was free and a great period of music, actually. Even today, every rap artist that’s out right now has a dance song on the radio. I mean, it’s just crazy that something that was created 37 years ago is back stronger than ever right now. It’s a shame that it got such a bad rap. It was great music. It’s still great music.”

As I often ask during an interview, I asked KC if he was in his late teens or early 20’s today, as he was in the 70’s, how would he enter the music business today, given what he knows now.  Without hesitation, he responds.

“I went into it with a lot of knowledge to begin with. The only thing that I might do a little bit different is in the promotion and marketing department for KC and the Sunshine Band because people know my music. Sometimes, if you say my name to somebody, they’ll go ‘Huh?’ Then you say the song and they know exactly who it is. Because I handled my career in the very beginning, I managed myself and the group, the whole thing. The only thing I probably neglected in doing was the marketing and promotion of that name.  I tried to stay out of the PR part of it.  We were in teen magazines and a lot of that kind of stuff but I kind of kept a lid on how much was let out.

Would his style and musicianship be different?

Not hardly.

“Growing up in a gospel church, I always loved music that came from the heart and soul – that moved you. That’s the kind of music that I was doing. So, I don’t think that I would change anything.

With our time just about to come to a close, I wanted to find out what’s next, CD wise, coming from KC and the Sunshine band.

“I’m thinking about doing the kind of thing that Barry Manilow and Rod Stewart have all done but not from a certain period of time. Songs that my friends like, you know what I mean? Love songs about relationships, healing, that kind of thing. And, there are talks about maybe doing a Broadway show down the line. I’m trying to get a show together for Las Vegas. A lot of talks about a lot of things, so, we’ll see.”

I’m always curious what artist listen to on their iPods.  I’m often surprised by some of the responses I get.  For some reason, given the level of musical talent and knowledge KC has, I assumed that his listening habits covered a multitude of musical genres.

He proved me right.

“Everybody. Whoever is the hottest flavor of the moment. I love that song by Eminem and Rihanna, I Love The Way You Lie.  Flo Rida’s new song, The Club Can’t Handle Me Now. I love the one by John Mayer, Half Of My Heart.  I’ve always loved all kinds of music – more R&B than anything else but I love all kinds of music.  I have a little bit of everybody from Country to Pop to Rock to R&B to Rap to Heavy Metal – I have it all on my iPod.  Pretty soon they’re going to have to have one with more gigabytes, that’s for sure!”

Our phone conversation concluded after some more small talk.  I couldn’t help but think how great it must make one feel to know that they’ve contributed great music to the soundtrack of an entire generation.  Not just music but music that brings a smile to countless faces and inspires one to dance . . . even if they can’t.

KC and the Sunshine Band has done exactly that for those of us who were teenagers in the mid to late seventies.  And, as KC mentioned during our chat, his music has inspired new artists in the creation of their music.

If you would like to keep up with KC and the Sunshine Band, you should visit his website, www.heykcsb.com. You will be able to get the latest news about the band as well as pick up music and memorabilia from their store.

Bobby Keys

Posted April, 2012

 

Bobby Keys With the Stones in 2003. Courtesy of Jane Rose/BobbyKeys.net

I’ve been a Rolling Stones fan since my teen years in the seventies. Tunes like Brown Sugar and Can’t You Hear Me Knockin’ (along with many other Stones tunes) commanded my attention on so many levels – especially the sax solos.

Since those days, the sax figured prominently in other favorite Stones tunes like Miss You, the live version of Going To A Go-Go, to name a couple. Because of my appreciation of those solos, I became very aware of the man behind that sax: Bobby Keys

What I wasn’t aware of until recent years – and especially until I read Keys’ autobiography, Every Night’s A Saturday Night, was the long list of other rock and roll royalty and their iconic tunes that he’s played on.  Musical monsters like B.B. King, Carly Simon, Delaney & Bonnie, Eric Clapton, George Harrison, John Lennon, Joe Cocker and many, many, many others. Saturday Night is a wonderful read and you can catch the Boomerocity review of it here. But it bears repeating that the tone and feel of the book is very conversational. You get the feeling that you’re chillin’ in Bobby’s TV room, shootin’ the breeze and listening to him share a ton of stories of his life in the business.

I recently called up Bobby at his Nashville area home. It was my first time to have the privilege of chatting with him.  His warm, Texas/Southern drawl told me that he’s the kind of person that I can immediately connect with.  He’s as country as cornbread and never meets a stranger – my kind of people.

As we got down to starting our chat, I asked Keys how he liked Nashville.

“Ah, man, I love the town!  It’s just a rotten place for saxophone players – but I LOVE the town, I really do!  I like the people that live here and I have a lot friends that live here. There’s just not a lot of sax biz that goes on here. That’s nothing personal against me.  Ha! Ha!”

As we set the stage for what the chat would cover, I mentioned that I would not ask if his main gig, The Rolling Stones, were going to tour or not. I was startled that he gave me a comment about it anyway.

“Boy, I hope they do!  I tell ya what, I really hope they do! I honestly don’t know. I found that it’s best for me not to speculate – especially publicly. Every time I think that they’re gonna jump left, they jump right. I just had one little brief line from Keith. He just said that he’ll let me know. That’s the extent of it. I’ve learned after all these years – you know, I’ve been playing with the band since, I don’t know, ’69 – forty-three years – and in that time I’ve learned that speculation about what those guys are gonna do is no way, really, to base your future on what you think they’re gonna do.  I think there’s a good possibility of it, are my own thoughts on it. I hope so!”

We shifted our attention to Bobby’s book.  Since the book is a tales-from-the-road kind of tome – sharing all sorts of funny stories, I asked him what the reaction has been to it.

“Well, so far, it’s been really good. I went to New York about ten days ago and did a gig there with my band and also did a lot of media – some radio, interviews and stuff. It’s all been really, really good!  When I finished speaking into a microphone – I didn’t do I any writing – you always wonder, ‘Well, I wonder what is gonna come of this – how are people going to receive it?’

“It’s been very rewarding to me because I’ve had nobody come back at me – except one guy said that there wasn’t enough sex and drugs in it. The thing of it is is that scene has been pounded into the ground for years and years and years by everybody that’s ever written a book about the Rolling Stones. But most of them knew very little about the Rolling Stones. The thing that I like about the Stones is playin’ with them! I love their music and that’s what I wanted to talk more about in the book than anything else was the music.”

When I commented about all the people he’s worked with over the years such as Buddy Holly, Bonnie Bramlett and a whole bunch of others, I told him that he struck me as the friggin’ Forrest Gump of rock and roll. He cackled out laughing and said, “Now there’s a hell of an analogy! That’s funnier ‘n hell!” Then, obviously turning to his wife who was in the room with him, he said, “He just called me the Forrest Gump of rock and roll! Ha! Ha! Ha!”

After having a good laugh, I asked Forrest – er – Bobby who hasn’t he worked with that either he wishes he had before they passed away or, if they’re still alive, want to work with?

“Well, you know, that’s a very good question. I’d like to work with Stevie Wonder – LOVE his music, you know? I’d love to work with more of the Motown acts, too. But, you know, I’m really pretty happy with what’s happened and what’s happened has really been kinda the left hand of God puttin’ me through a lot of this stuff. I never really planned out any master scheme to achieve what I’ve achieved. I’ve just been in the right place at the right time with a saxophone and was able to do pretty much what needed to be done. It’s just the feel of the music and the way rock and roll had an impact on me.

“When I heard Buddy Holly playing that guitar on the back of that flatbed wagon and Joe B. up there playin’ bass and J.I. playin’ drums, man! That had an impact on me. I fell into the saxophone by accident. It didn’t start out that way. I got hurt playing baseball and I couldn’t play football so I went into the band and all that jazz. Somebody else has been pullin’ the strings – I’ve just been dancin’! Ha! Ha!”

Since I’m real partial to the great Bonnie Bramlett, I was stunned to read in Saturday Night that she was one of those originally considered for the female solo on Gimme Shelter.  I told Keys that I would have spent his last tour check to have heard her sing that – not that Merry Clayton was any slouch on her solo, of course.  That revelation prompted to ask, Bobby if, from where he sits, there any one thing that he feels should have been done majorly different on a Stones song and, if it had, would’ve changed rock history as we know it?

“Huh!  Well, I’ve never considered it but, personally, I’ve agreed pretty much what the Stones have done – at least during the times I’ve been recording with them and the tracks that I’ve played on - and, of course, with Jim Price. He was a big part of that, too! But, as for the Stones, one of the things I’ve always tried to get them to do is I’ve always wanted them to do an instrumental and put it on one of their albums. It was never seriously considered. I seriously considered it but the minute it got it out of my mouth the laughter didn’t die down for about two hours!

“But, nah, I don’t think there’s anything that I would go back and change, particularly. But I tell ya, the way I play, I play a lot off of the other musicians. I listen to other elements – what the guitar is doing rhythmically. I’ll play along with that. I’ll pick something out of that strata or that level. I’m very much a rhythmic saxophone player so playing with the Rolling Stones is really fun for me!”

Keys says in his book that he always viewed Keith Richards as a kindred spirit – that, if he wasn’t born in England, he would’ve had to be a Texan.  I asked him to expound on that just a bit. He was laughing his genuine, infectious laugh as he said, “Well, I had him made an honorary Texan. I had the Texas flag flown over the Alamo on the day of his and mine birthday (they both have the same birth day). I knew some people in Texas who were associated with the Texas Historical Society so I had them fly the Texas flag over the Alamo on December the 18th, got it documented and sent it to Keith, hoping it would finally induce him to take into consideration about coming down to Dallas and joining the team!  Ha! Ha!”

Since we were on the subject of Keef, I asked Bobby what the least understood thing is about the Stones guitarist. Without even a nanosecond of hesitation Bobby said, “His temperament.  This is a guy, man, that goes out of his way to save the life of a little stray dawg in Russia. Keith is portrayed as a dark person, more or less and he’s anything but that!  He’s one of the funniest sumbitches I’ve ever known in my life, man! 

“Some people look at him as having his blood changed at some Transylvanian medieval castle, you know? Those people are not going to believe anything I say. I mean, I’ve met people in bars in hotels we’ve stayed and they’ll go, ‘How about that Keith Richards thang? Were you with him when he had his blood changed?’ and I’d go, “No, man, the guy didn’t have his blood changed!’ They’d say, ‘Ah, man, you can’t say anything about it, huh?’ It doesn’t make any difference how many times I say somethin’ ain’t right, they ain’t gonna believe me anyway.  But the guys a sweetheart and chicks dig him for some reason! They really like him - chicks and critters! Ha! Ha!”

A Boomerocity reader wondered how it worked out that Keith just let Bobby write his own side of the stories in Keith’s book - like maybe, Keith, "Hey Bobby, man I don't remember any of that, here why don't you write the story?"  Here’s Keys’ take on how that all happened.

“He’s got a hideaway sort of place down in Turks and Caicos Islands and the writer, James Fox, was going down there to talk to Keith. I was asked to go down there. I spent five days down there. Keith would be in the same room. I’m not bashful, man. James Fox just asked me questions and I gave him answers. Keith didn’t say anything like, ‘No, I’d rather you not say this. Maybe not touch on that.’ He didn’t say anything about what I said. He said, ‘Just talk to James Fox and tell him whatever he wants to know.’ And that’s exactly what I did! I answered James Fox’s questions and we spent a lot of time talking over a period of a couple of days.

“But it’s easy to talk about Keith. He’s a pretty memorable fella!  I’ve been around him sometimes when it got very memorable but the thing I remember about him and the most important thing is that he’s the most honest sumbitch and the best damn guitar player. I love playing music with Keith!  He’s just got a feel for it that I can really relate to.”

Success and failure are often determined by the opportunities grabbed or passed on and Bobby has certainly jumped at lots of great opportunities that have brought him to where he is today.  Is there a particular song or album that he had a chance to work on and, for whatever reason, didn’t or couldn’t and now looks back and says, “Crap!”

“Well, shoot! Let’s see. Well, of course, during the recording of Exile on Main Street, George Harrison did his Concert for Bangladesh gig. Jim Price and I had played on the All Things Must Pass album from which he (Harrison) took most of the material to play at that concert. Anyway, he invited Jim and I to go play at the concert. I thought it was for a real good cause and I wanted to go do it and Jim wanted to go do it but we had already obligated ourselves to work there in the South of France. I would’ve always liked to have been there for that. It’s not like a great big, huge hole in my life because I wasn’t. I was having a pretty good time down in the South of France.

“Also, not that it ever would’ve happened, I would’ve liked to have played some live stuff with John Lennon. I really loved him - and Harry Nilsson!  I tried and tried and tried to get Harry to do a live gig but he was dead-set against it. He never did do a live gig. He did one video.”

Bringing a little levity to the conversation (as if we needed any more), I interjected that, according to his book, he did manage to provide a frog sound on one of Yoko Ono’s albums to which he chuckled, “Oh, yeah, man, that was indeed a red letter day!  There, again, man, some hand of Providence touched me there because I had no idea what I was gonna do. I was looking at John like, ‘Hey, man, give me some feedback here, son! Help me!’  He just looked at me and rolled his eyes like, ‘You got this one all by yourself, Bobby!’

During my recent interview with Keys’ fellow Stones band mate, Chuck Leavell, I told him that I was working on an interview with Keys. He had this to say about Bobby and his book: “Bobby is a great friend of mine.  We are ‘Southern Brothers’ - he from Texas and me from Alabama. We talk a lot about both on tour and off.  I'm so glad he is getting his story out there. It is a remarkable story.  He has played with so many icons . . . John Lennon, Bonnie and Delaney, The Stones, the Mad Dogs and Englishmen tour and so much more. He has so many great experiences to tell about. I can't wait to get my copy!”

At the time of my chat with Keys, I hadn’t yet these comments with him. However, I asked him what his thoughts were of the Stones keyboardist.

“Oh, yeah, I’ve got lots of good thoughts about Chuck!  One thing is he’s a brother from the south!  So, we’re both brothers of the Confederacy.  Heh! Heh!  I believe that the earth is a southern planet! Ha! Ha!

“Before I met Chuck I knew his name and was aware of his work, man!  He stepped into some pretty big shoes and just by virtue of the fact that was, more or less, recommended by Ian Stewart – whose opinion really resonates with all the members of the Stones, I can tell you that – or it did before Stu died. Chuck stepped into a situation, man, where he had a lot of bases to cover that hadn’t been covered before. All of a sudden he was actually the musical director on the stage. He was the one that was in charge of going in and making sure that the songs were the correct tempo and that everybody started and ended at the same place which, generally, didn’t take a whole lot. But he brought together a lot of people. It’s a big band.  I think there’s 13 or 14 of us counting the singers and horn players. Chuck has to walk a pretty tight line, sometimes, between the camps of Keith and Mick. He’s very much a southern diplomat to be able to do that because many have tried and few were successful.”

With a well received book now under his belt and waiting to hear if the bad boys of rock and roll are going to tour, I asked Bobby if he was going to come out with a solo CD.

“Yeah, well, actually, the guys I play with here in town – we call ourselves The Suffering Bastards – we’ve been into the studio. We’ve got four tracks that we’ve recorded and we’re probably going to be doing some more future gigs we’ll be having a CD available pretty soon online and at the gigs we play.”

And when Keys boards that great tour plane to heaven, what does he hope his legacy will be and how does he want to be remembered?

“A guy who loved rock n’ roll music.”

It’s Bobby Keys’ love of rock and roll music that has allowed him to be a lively part of the soundtrack of our youth that continues to play to this very day.  Somehow, I have this sneakin’ hunch – I just know it in my knower – that Bobby is going to be on many more great rock tunes to come. 

Howard Kaylan

Posted June, 2013

howardkaylan1cIf you’re, say, oh, I don’t know, over the age of eighteen and claim to love music and, yet, also claim to have never heard Elenore or Happy Together by The Turtles, I would have to say that the person making the claim is lying – either about loving music or having never heard the Turtles tunes.  I mean, c’mon!  One would have to be living under a rock to have never heard either of those songs – especially Happy Together.  That song is everywhere!

In 2009, I had the privilege of seeing the two founding members of the Turtles, Howard Kaylan and Mark Volman, perform these hits and others during their hosting of Hippiefest that included other legends from the sixties. My daughter and I were fortunate enough to be able to hang out backstage for a bit and I met, among other people, Kaylan and Volman.  Great – and gracious – men, both!

Fast forward to a few weeks ago.

I was thrilled to be able to get an advance copy of Kaylan’s autobiography, Shell Shocked: My Life With The Turtles.  I was further stoked when Howard’s publicist hooked me up with the lovely, talented and highly organized Mrs. Kaylan to arrange a phone interview with her legendary husband.

Once the arrangements were made, at the appointed time I called Howard at his home in the beautiful Seattle area.  I was immediately impressed with how well-read and articulate this legendary performer was. In making small talk about meeting him backstage four years ago and how much fun my daughter and I had at the show, he gave me an inside look at the evolution of that tour.

“Well, thank you!  We’ve been doing it every year with one guy or another. We kind of mutated from Hippiefest to the Happy Together Tour a couple of years after that. We thought that the Hippiefest direction was kind of going dark. I mean, it’s one thing to say ‘Flower Power’ and to represent your stuff as being that good time relief in your busy summer day so you can forget your troubles. It’s another thing to listen to down and out blues at the end of a two and a half-hour set.

“No one wants to leave the auditorium feeling like you want to kill yourself.  You know, that’s kind of a downer for your night, especially if you just bought yourself a couple of tie-dyed shirts and you’re expecting to leave there singing a happy tune. Then, you go out thinking, ‘Awe, life’s just not worth it!’ That’s not quite the attitude that we want our tour to have so things are lighter and brighter these days. The past few years we’ve had incredibly good results by taking the tour out under the name ‘Happy Together Tour’ and bringing out with us some of the all-time best artists that we possibly could. If you’re not smiling by the end of our show – certainly the end of the five of our shows put together – then you’re dead!”

With tours like Happy Together continually successful, I asked Kaylan why these kinds of classic rock tours – whether they’re a caravan tour like Happy Together or just some of the legacy acts still touring – that they’re still quite an audience draw and how long did he think that they’ll continue to be.

“Well, I think they’ll continue to be a successful draw forever and ever as long as there are enough acts that feel that going out together would be a lot better than going out separately. I mean, you have to admit that the draw here is that you’re not going to see just one act and either be elated or disappointed. If you don’t like the act you’re seeing at the present time, hang around for thirty minutes because they’ll be gone and somebody else is going to come on.

“So, what this is – as the Happy Together Tour – really a greatest hits of the sixties. We’re not giving you a chance to not like one second of this show. To that end, we’ve taken painstaking turns to make sure that everybody you’re seeing is the original guy that sang the song.  It doesn’t make any sense at all to have the bass player from Iron Butterfly, the drummer from Steely Dan and then the guitar player from The Blues Project. So what? They were never a band. You put them on stage together and they’re probably going to play seven different songs.  So, as far as I’m concerned, that doesn’t make a group. The talent alone doesn’t make a group. Playing together makes a group or, at the very least, you’ve got to sound like the record!  These are memories!

“As far as the Turtles are concerned, I fully understand that this is probably the first – and maybe the last – time that this audience is ever going to see us. If you don’t sound like your record this time around, then you’re messing with their memories and I’m not going to do that!  For all the humor we try to stack into the show – for all the frivolity that we, as an act, try to put into our performance – this stuff has to sound like the original record or it just won’t fly. That’s why Gary Lewis is going to sing six of his biggest songs and he’s had twenty huge songs in his career.  It’s the same with all of these acts - Gary Puckett and, oh my god, Mark Lindsay and Chuck Negron and ourselves.

“Everybody here is trying to condense ourselves because none of us can do all of our hits in the amount of time we’re given. You leave the auditorium or the theater or the lawn or whatever venue we’re in that town and you’ve seen two and a half hours of nothing but the lead singers of all of those bands that you remembered from your growing up days or your parents days or you just found them on a record, God knows, and it’s wonderful however you got there – but nonstop!  I mean, just nonstop! It’s a barrage of 40, 50 songs in a row that are just mind-boggling and you do leave the place humming all of these tune and you’re not hit with a bunch of feedback at the end and going, ‘What the hell was that?’

“The worst thing in the world that can happen at one of these shows – or before the end of one of these shows – is that you start looking at your watch in my age bracket or my kid’s age bracket, thinking about your babysitter or the fact that you’ve got to get up early in the morning because it’s a weeknight or whatever it is, certain things come into play as an adult that would’ve never crossed your mind as a twenty-year-old but now, with responsibilities, you’ve gotta make the concert really, really exciting and I don’t think we disappoint. We’ve been doing this year after year and every year the tour grows. We started out doing twenty dates and we’re up to around fifty-two this summer. That doesn’t leave a lot of time for much else.”

When I offered that it’s also what they represent – that the music stands quite well on its own, is positive and not anti-war; that their music shows up on the latest video games and movies, and is what people gravitate towards, Howard replied, “Well, we were a backlash to the war, certainly. We were not ‘Eve of Destruction’ protestors. We were trying not to take that stance because we realized that, as white middle-class kids, we had nothing to protest, really. Had we been as adamant about our politics as Barry McGuire had been – yeah, he might have had a number one record but that was the only song this guy was ever gonna have.  There was just no doubt about it. You put out a song that strong and you’ve made a political statement. We didn’t want to be political in any way, shape or form.  We never were. We just wanted to make the music. We still just want to make the music.

“The fact that it’s been able to – like you said – morph into all different formats that, yeah, we are in Rock Band and we are in all these video games that you can buy as authentic Turtles songs. That’s a great feeling! And no matter how the audience of five generations learns a song like Happy Together – whether they’ve learned it from The Simpson’s or Adaptation or Shrek or however they come to know it, I don’t care as long as I can see people my age and their kids and their kids and their kids all singing, ‘I can’t see me lovin’ nobody but you’. You see fifty thousand people singing it at a time, it’s like We Are The World. That’s really gratifying!  That’s incredible. Certainly the internet and satellite radio and downloads have been a huge plus for us.

“We’ve never been more successful as far as sales of our catalog than we are right now. This has been a boon for us. The internet is the best thing that’s ever happened to the Turtles. Maybe we’re the exception instead of the rule in that Mark and I own the Turtles catalog and most of the people from the sixties and seventies still don’t. I mean, Peter Noone doesn’t own his stuff. He has to go in and re-record if he wants to sell that stuff. Mark and I were unfortunate enough to have to go through an awful lot of lawsuits to procure ours but, in the end, we came out with our name and the ability to sell this stuff – or lease it, as the case may be – in perpetuity so we’re doing great!  It’s sort of an annuity both mentally and physically forever.  So, Lord bless the internet!”

Shifting the focus of the questions to Shell Shocked – which is an incredibly interesting, informative and well-written book, by the way – I asked Kaylan what the reaction to the books as been up to this point.

“From what I can judge, it’s been pretty good. I don’t know the market place. I’m not Dean Koontz. I didn’t expect this thing to come out and be sold in airports or anything. It’s gratifying to see it in the bookstores that still exist. There are stacks of books at Barnes and Noble where it is on display.  You can go to Amazon and it’s discounted and they’ll ship it for free.  For me – we haven’t even put out a real serious record since the last Flo and Eddie thing in, like, 1976.  So, this is really the first thing that I’ve had to push in a great many years and it’s gratifying to know that, at least critically, it’s being well responded to. Sales-wise, there are so many factors involved and so many people. It’s not going to compete with the great summer novels or the next Harry Potter and that’s what book people are all about.

“I really wanted to do something in print before the medium disappears. I’m a huge fan of print. I love books. I love the way they feel. I love the way they smell. I love turning the pages. I love having something tactile in my hands. And, while they’re e-book versions of this book that already exist – you can download them for Kindles and for iBook. I did an audiobook that I finished last week that will be available in the next two or three weeks, I’m sure. That, to me, is a crowning achievement. That’s great!

“I’m sixty-five. I’m still doing things that are brand new to me and fields that I’ve never gotten into before in my life. So, if you can still say that and see another horizon ahead and see another kind of book that you haven’t written or another kind of script or screenplay that you haven’t taken on and you get somebody to go, ‘Yeah! I’ll bankroll that! That’ll be fun! Let’s do it together’ that’s wonderful! It keeps the plates spinning. It keeps me interested in what I’m doing and it makes those three months of touring in between not seem like something that is repetitive. There is nothing less creative than being recreated. To recreate those memories – like Brian Eno said many years ago; it was something, at the time, he refused to do and I had a lot of respect for that attitude. He didn’t really follow through with it and he made a billion dollars in his own way. But what he said and the principle behind it, I think, is really, really important: You still gotta remain creative.  Recreating what you did is not enough! It certainly ain’t art and it may pay the bills but you’ve got to have some sort of outlet or you were never as creative as you said.”

Speaking of creativity, I asked Howard if the book was tough for him to write and put together.

“Hard, man. It was hard!  It took the better part of a year. I was trying not to write from notes. I started from birth with this thing. Until I got up to about the eighties, I was fine. When I hit the eighties, things got a little foggy and I did have to rely on the daily diaries that I’ve been keeping ever since 1968. I didn’t need them. I really didn’t need them. I knew the high points of every year that I went through and they’re based either on marriages or songs or houses or cars. You remember things – everybody does in their lives – little bookmarks or touchstones or whatever.  That’s the way I sort of wrote this book. I just wanted it to read like I was talking to you.

“I didn’t want it to be like it was crap like it was a VH1 movie because that’s just fraudulent. I’m a linguist. I’m a fan of the language so I tried to write it with a bit of intelligence and a little bit of humor. Even though some of the situations that I got myself into were very, very sticky and not much fun over the years, you’ve got to write about this stuff with a little bit of empathy for yourself or else you’re going to be a miserable guy.

“I personally found that by opening as many doors as I did writing this thing, you can’t just close them. I’d be lying if I told you that I didn’t wind up in therapy twice a week because of this. I figure that I’ve influenced a lot of people for better or worse in my life.  You can either ignore that or move on or try to make yourself better for it. I just figured that it ain’t too late. I’m just going to attempt to do what I can here.”

Our conversation shifted towards one of the more comical and interesting stories that Kaylan shares in his book:  Puking on the late, great Jimi Hendrix.  I asked Howard if he thought that, with the release of his book, he would now go down in history as the only guy who can make that claim to fame.

“I’m not sure it’s something that anybody else would want to claim.  I’m not really proud of it but I thought I’d be remiss if I didn’t tell the story.  I was young and I was a punk. It was our first night in London and I had already met the Beatles and sort of got beat up by them at their table. It wasn’t fun. It really wasn’t fun. We thought that they were rock gods. One guy, in particular, John Lennon, wound up being a jerk. I mean, he was a little tipsy and you can kind of excuse him because of his position in rock and roll. He was a king. But, you know, kings can be nice, too. He just kind of wasn’t. It affected me psychologically. It affected the band. It sent the night into a tailspin.

“I wound up having a dinner with a guy that I had never met before that a new friend, Brian Jones of the Stones, had introduced me to. It was this guy, Hendrix, and I had never heard of him or seen him and we just started talking. We started talking about success and women. He was playing Monterey Pop and he didn’t know what to think about it because he’d been away from the States for all these years and he came from Seattle. This Monterey thing was a really big deal and didn’t know how the U.S. press was going to respond.

“The entire time we kept drinking and drinking and eating and drinking and eating and smoking and drinking and eating.  It got to be a point at about four o’clock in the morning where I’m, like,  ‘I just don’t think that I can even make it to the bathroom, man’ and  I just blew chunks, as they say. It was horrible.   He changed from this soft-spoken guy to this mad man and he jumped to his feet and he was cursing at the top of his lungs and I just passed out at the table.  That’s all I remember.  You can’t be proud of a night like that. I still don’t know how I got back to the hotel, though, and unless somebody reads this and answers me, I’m going to go to my grave not knowing how I got back to the hotel.”

While that was one of the biggest, surprising stories to me in the book, I asked Howard what other feedback he’s getting from people as to what they have found surprising.

“Well, a lot of people are amazed at the very first sentence of the book and the cojones it took to say what I said, let alone say it first right off the bat and that was referring to the White House incident in Abe Lincoln’s dressing room (and involved tooting some cocaine).  We were bad boys back then and we weren’t really fans of Richard Nixon at all and there were drugs involved. That’s all that I really can say. We were clowning. We were kids. We really didn’t expect that there would be cameras or guards. Good thing that there weren’t so we got away with murder, so to speak, at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

“But we had some interesting adventures. The Secret Service unpacked our equipment and they set off an electric metronome that started ticking. They thought it was a bomb. We all hit the ground and they soaked the thing in water and pried off the faceplate and then said, ‘It’s a metronome’ and we said, ‘We told you it was a metronome” and they sent us a check for seventeen dollars by government check. It’s one of those things you keep, you don’t cash.”

I couldn’t resist asking Mr. Kaylan if he thought there might have ever been coke snorted in the White House since the Turtles were there.

“Since we’ve been there?  Oh, absolutely! I could give you a list of people that I probably suspect of being involved since. I gotta say that we were the first rock band to ever play there so we set the stage for, I’m sure, an amazing array of drugs that were yet to follow. I mean, Willie (Nelson) has played there! Everybody’s played there!”

In Shell Shocked, Howard tells of the surprising storing of getting high with the late, legendary Soupy Sales.   Say it isn’t so!

“Seriously.”

Oh, man! Not Soupy!

“And it’s not like I had to supply the drugs or anything. I gotta tell ya, man, that guy was the biggest surprise of my adult life because, as a kid, I had really worshipped that guy. I had grown up watching all of those shows.  I was such a huge fan of Pookie and Hippy and White Fang and Black Tooth- they were like family to me. I couldn’t believe it when my good friend invited his neighbor from across the hall to come over. I thought it was going to be some plumber or something – no offense to plumbers.  In walks Soupy Sales. Soupy f-ing Sales  - and with a stash that I could not even believe. Just an incredible array of ‘What?  And you’ve got what? What’s that? That does what? Oh my god!’ He was just unbelievable.

“He was in the business a very long time and, evidently, I was a newcomer compared to him. So, the first night, especially, we proceeded to – I can’t tell you how high everybody was. He goes, ‘Wait, wait, wait!’ and he runs across the hall and he came back with Pookie!’ Come on, Man! He came back with POOKIE! I nearly lost it. That was it for me, man. I was in hog heaven. We worked with him many times. When asked who we wanted to open a show, we would check to see if he was still around and doing it (comedy) and, if it was a comic on the circuit, we would always say, ‘Soupy Sales!’ He wound up doing quite a few shows with us over the course of his life and we got to know him quite well.”

I’m a business geek and love learning the business side of anything. I wanted to bring our chat back around to something Howard already alluded to earlier in our conversation and that was the Turtles’ legendary ownership of their own name and catalog when so many artists from their time don’t own their own.  I was first made aware of this a few years ago during my interview with Sam Andrew from Big Brother and the Holding Company.  Here’s what he said in that interview, " . . . The Turtles are a BIG draw. There, for a while, every movie that came out had that song in it. Remember that song, "So Happy Together"? Every movie! And there was one movie that had it in the title! (Laughs) I know how much you make on those things and they made a lot of money."

I asked Mr. Kaylan to give Boomerocity readers a Reader’s Digest version of how he and Mr. Volman wound up pulling off the business coup of rock music history.

“Well, every cloud has a silver lining. In this case, our cloud was huge and monstrous and what it was was our record company – a little independent called White Whale Records in Los Angeles had owned us for five and a half years – all of our hit records were not on a major label. They were on this little, tiny label. So, we were kind of brats. We recorded what we wanted to when we wanted to and we were a bratty as kids could be and they were as ‘a-holey’ as guys could be on the other end of the spectrum. They were ‘suits’ in the worst possible sense of the word and thugs and that was born out in court.

“In one six month period of time – we went in and did an audit on those guys – and we discovered a $685,000 discrepancy in 1969. That wasn’t really in our peak earning period, even, but it was a six month period of time. Extrapolated over the amount of time that they were given, we sued them for two and a half million bucks and they countersued – which was their right to do. Anybody can countersue on any claim.  It was part of their countersuit, however, that the contract we had with them that signed us not only as the Turtles but signed each and every one of us individually. They had separate contracts with each of us. We didn’t sign a group contract; separate contracts with each of us so that I couldn’t make a record, Mark couldn’t make a record.

“We decided that not only that we had it with the rest of the guys in the band, but we were also knocking our heads against a brick wall with the record company, White Whale, and decided to just disband the group. We found that it was easier to form a band than it was to break one up. We were a California corporation. We employed a great many people – indirectly or directly.  The suits started flying in our face. It wasn’t only them, it was management suits that came back to us over the years and divorce proceedings that were going on at the same time. So, literally, there was a period there at the end of 1970 where I was in court, personally, almost every day that we weren’t out on the road. A great, long period of time – maybe two and half years of constant depositions and constantly going to L.A. County Court and fighting for our name.

“We wound up winning the White Whale lawsuit. We wound up winning our name back. We won the right to be the Turtles and to be ourselves again.  This was only after our having renamed ourselves Flo and Eddie. As part of the lawsuit, we were awarded all of the Turtles’ master recordings. In the years in between the Turtles’ breakup and the settlement, all of the other band members decided that there was no future in owning any piece of an old band like that.  Mark and I had been able to borrow money from other people – like Alice Cooper’s manager and Frank Zappa’s manager – and, literally, buy those guys out for pennies – several thousand dollars. They were gone so Mark and I wound up being the only two guys who were responsible, at the end of the day, for owning the name and everything that went with it. That took place in the mid-seventies or so and ever since that time when you hear Happy Together played on the radio or any of the other Turtles songs that have come out in the part of a Flo and Eddie, Inc.,  catalog, that’s us!  There’s no record company in between and it’s been an incredible thing.

“Like I say, when people hear it used in a Simpson’s or used in an Adaptation or a picture like that where it’s used in an opening or closing credits, that’s huge. That’s a great, great thing for us and it revitalizes that song and the catalog for another year or two. It makes people remember, ‘Oh, yeah! Those guys! They’re still around!’ We managed to still be around in a lot of people’s minds and that’s sort of kept us alive for all these years.”

With his unique experience and perspective of the industry, I asked Howard what he would do if he was Music Czar, tasked with fixing the music business.

“The first thing I would do is I would make sure that every radio station played every kind of music that there was to play so that you didn’t have to make a judgment before you listened to something whether or not that was your genre or not. Back in the day, you used to have a Turtles record and an Otis Redding record and a Supremes record and a Gary Lewis record and a Matt Monroe record. God knows, Dusty Springfield, Monkees, whatever it was, played back to back to back on the same radio station. It was great. Everybody was educated. Everybody knew what the music was.

“Today, unless you’re talking about a very narrow band of hits radio stations, whatever that means, you’ve gotta kind of make your mind up as a listener before you even turn the radio on as to what you want to hear. You can listen to the hip hop station. You can listen to the adult contemporary station. You can listen to the urban station. They’re all different. Country stations are different than top 40 stations. Active adult contemporary is different than regular adult contemporary. I mean, what the hell are they talking about? It used to be that a song is a song is a song. I don’t want to learn what’s popular by watching cover versions done on American Idol or The Voice. That’s not the way I want to hear my music.

“Fortunately, I don’t get involved very much with contemporary radio. Unless stands out to me as an entertainer like Rhianna or Adam Lambert or somebody who’s there for a reason and has earned their place, I don’t care. I just really don’t care. I’d rather stick to the people – present or past – that I’ve enjoyed listening to all my life and I don’t go all the way back to classic oldies. I’ll go back as far as the first Foo Fighters album. I really don’t take it that very far back. I’m an alternative radio kind of guy. I went through the eighties listening to The Replacements and Soul Asylum and Hȕsker Dȕ – bands like that and I’m still really into bands like that. Yo La Tengo are friends of mine and I love those guys. I see them constantly. That’s the kind of music I like to listen to.

“I don’t believe that good music stopped being made when Led Zeppelin quite. I think there are great bands out there to this day. I bring up Foo Fighters because they’re the hardest rockin’ band that I could think of off-hand but there are great players all over.   Man, certainly in Texas! I mean, you guys – every block there’s an incredible player! We’re talking about an area that is still yet to be mined all over the place.  And, yeah, the internet is great for those people to get a foothold – at least a small following in the business. But they’ve got to remember it’s still the same thing: it’s the record business. The minute you say you’re in music, you’re a champ. The minute you say you’re in the music business, you’ve turned a corner. Now you’re selling yourself already so you’ve got to be ready for the same four guys that were running the music business back when I was a sprout. I’m talking about Clive Davis and his cronies - the same four people that are still running the industry.  It’s kind of not fair because there’s all this illusion that there’s been an independent swing and that little labels are popular but that’s not really true. Once you’re on the internet or popular at all on a small label, your label’s bought by one of those four big guys anyway and you’re doomed.  There’s no place to go.  If you really want success on your level then you’ve got to do it by yourself.”

When I commented that there are only a couple of companies who control most of the venues where acts are booked to play, Howard added, “Exactly so, man, you’ve got to make nice-nice with those people because it’s a monopoly situation where a company like, oh, let’s just call them the ‘Foggy Stations’.  Let’s say that Foggy Stations own the billboards that are on the edge of town. They also own the radio stations and they own the bands that are playing at the arenas that they own. Most people would think that’s some sort of trade violation. And, yet, it seems not to raise an eyebrow.  So, I’d make friends with those people because anything else would be suicide in that profession and for anybody who would speak against them. You kind of wonder who, exactly, is running this thing and how high it goes. Nobody wants to ask too many questions while they’re still earning a living and their checks are being made out by these incredible people.

“So, no, nothing’s really changed, man, since, maybe the days of Alan Freed and Dick Clark, things really, really haven’t changed very much. The tour busses are a little better. The sound systems are quite a bit better. The halls might be a little bigger.  But, as far as I can see, ‘Hey, isn’t that Gary Lewis I hear on stage?  Yes, it is.’ It’s 1966 as far as I’m concerned and as long as I don’t see the hall before I walk out there, I’ll never know and I’ll be ready for anything.”

As we wound up our chat, I asked Howard how he hoped to be remembered and what he hoped his legacy will be.

“How do I want to be remembered? Well, you know, this book was sort of written in lieu of the fact that we don’t sit around the campfire anymore, like cavemen and tell stories. We just don’t. I realized that my grandkids are never going to have the advantage of me sitting around telling stories and making cave paintings and pointing out what I did when I was a youth. This is as close as I’m going to get. I’ve had a couple of people who have approached me and say that they thought it was a little strong and they wished I hadn’t been so frank about some of the stories I told. But it’s not their book. They’ll get their chance when it’s their turn to tell their stories and, if they felt that I was being a little too revealing about my impressions, then they should keep their grown-up kids away from this book or own it, on the other hand. Own it and just say, ‘Yeah, I did have a wildlife’ and probably get the respect of your kids after all these years.  ‘Thank you, Mom. I didn’t know you had a life in the first place! I think that’s just great!’

“I think as far as leaving a lasting impression, none of us do. Happy Together is my lasting impression. This book is just a bunch of notes on a life. If you can leave any footprints in the sand at all, you’re doing great.  It’s just sand. It’s going to go away in a minute anyway. The wind comes along and you’re meat. But it’s kind of cool to know that, if there’s anybody out there looking for the Library of Congress in some ‘Planet of the Apes’ future, that my book will be in there.

“It’s kind of great knowing on the night that Elvis died that he was listening to our greatest hits album. I don’t know why. It’s just kind of a historical asterisk but it’s kind of a great thing for me. Meeting the Beatles and going through that stuff was a great thing for me. There were certain little things that I needed to tell people to kind of get off of my chest and purge that would’ve been stories otherwise never told. So, why not tell them? If it’s true that everybody’s got a book in them then don’t wait until it’s too late. Even if you’re just writing the book for your grandkids like I did, the time is now. Do it! Talk it into a tape machine or something.  Put a slide show together. Do something to leave a legacy as a legacy for your kids. That’s all that this is, really.  It’s not meant to sell anything.  Like I said, you can’t compete on this kind of level when nobody knows who you are it’s hard to force them to buy your book. I just want them to have the chance to hate me or to be apathetic. I’m a happy guy. I just want to be the guy that tried it!”